train
Conductor
Posts: 114
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Post by train on Jan 9, 2023 20:35:03 GMT
Good Morning Douglas This is a totally different blender than what I have used in the past even then I was just at the novice stage I can't even find the import button. you will have to slow down somewhat, what version of Blender are you using and can I import and export x files without having to install an addon Regard Jnr 1 - For now the only version I recommend and can confirm that can be used for making RTR models is blender 2.7 both because of the way models are textured (we don't need nodes on blender 2.7, however they're obligatory on blender 2.8 and beyond and idk how the .x file handles them), and because it's the only one I have tested so far. I do hope that "user dad" succeeds in formulating a way of making animated objects in RTR using blender 2.8 though, this will change the game a lot for most modellers and myself, who is very interested in bringing real life steam engines into RTR and Thomas the tank engine characters into the game. 2 - There is a built-in direct X exporter on blender 2.7, and can be enabled using the "Add-ons" section on the "Preferences" menu. And the "Import" Button is on the "File" button on the top left corner of the screen. 3 - You will need an addon to import .x files into blender 2.7, and I have a download link for that addon in case you need it, since direct x addons for blender are quite difficult to come across on the internet. The addon is able to import the model, textures, and UVs, but the animation and the skeleton of the model is not preserved. The best way of importing RTR stuff WITH animations included into blender 2.7 is opening the .x file into fragmotion, exporting it to Milkshape3D, and importing the Milkshape3D file into blender, however I don't see any purpose into that since I don't know how to edit animated stuff outside fragmotion at all.
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Post by dad3353 on Jan 9, 2023 21:18:46 GMT
OK, I've read the linked tutorial, which explains how to do it using Fragmotion. I'll have a look at that software; it seems to be something from the 17th century, though, compared to other stuff..! I see what Fragmotion is doing; I'm wondering if more modern software can come up with an equivalent result. RTR understands Directx for its objects and animation, apparently (again; Stone Age, really, as far as User-friendliness goes...), so I'll try to see exactly what RTR wants in its .x file for animations. MBS imports .x files too (although I do it with Gltf; far easier to manipulate, for me...), so I'll try to compare the RTR method with the MBS method, to see if there's any commonality. The animations for this kind of movement I do in Blender using key-frames and linked (parented...) objects, as it's simple and clear. Blender also does Armatures, for 'skeletal' structures (human, of course, but mechanics too, such as excavators...). The tools for this are excellent, too, but the concepts are a bit less intuitive when not associated with animals etc. It can all be done with armatures; they, too, would need to be interpreted in a fashion RTR understands, by way of .x files. Do any of you have an .x file of a working mechanism, preferably simple, so that I may see how it's defined..? I could then see how to get that result with other tools. Meanwhile, I'll have a look at this FragMotion stuff. Back later...
Douglas
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Post by jnr on Jan 10, 2023 11:30:32 GMT
Good Morning Douglas Here is a link for the 2 6 2 animated wheelset xfile for RTR I have enclosed the texture to go with it Download link filehorst.de/d/ehCpEesGBest Regards Jnr
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Post by jnr on Jan 10, 2023 12:03:28 GMT
Back again just a few points on what we have covered so far
1 When I switch to the texture paint mode in blender my wheel is textured when I switch to any other mode the wheel has no texture is this normal, will the end result be textured
2 I can't seem to find the rotate and scale windows in blender it's probably right in front of my eyes, but I don't want to make a mistake at this point
Best Regards Jnr
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Post by dad3353 on Jan 10, 2023 12:48:34 GMT
Can I assume that you're now using Blender 3.4 (the latest version...)..? If so, here's the basic 'Start up' screen that I see... I have selected the default 'cube' and deleted it, as well as the Tabs along the top of the window that I don't use. I did this by right-clicking on each of those Tabs and selecting 'Delete', like this... To save this, or any other set-up, as the default 'Start-up' set-up, use the Menu 'File/Defaults/Save Startup File, seen here ... With the 'Layout' Tab selected, and an object loaded (such as the Wheel...), the display mode is changed with the row of icons, top right of the window, named as 'Viewport Shading'. They will be used a lot, especially the four right-most ones, which are, from left to right : Display as Wire Edges ( wire frame...), Display in Solid mode (the most often used, no Texture visible...), Display in Material Preview mode (so textured...), and Display Render preview... (to see the Scene as it would be rendered, with lighting. Not used for now, until we get to Emissive Textures, for lighting up headlights etc...). Set up your Start screen in this way (we won't be using the other Tabs; we have other ways of colouring, but we're not there yet...), and open your 'Wheel' file, and we'll go from there. Douglas
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Post by jnr on Jan 10, 2023 13:20:36 GMT
Hi Douglas Can you remember which tabs you deleted apart from that we are good to go
Jnr
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Post by dad3353 on Jan 10, 2023 13:24:02 GMT
Yes, all but the first four (Layout, UV Editing, Shading and Animation...)
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Post by jnr on Jan 10, 2023 15:12:40 GMT
ok Douglass good to go
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Post by dad3353 on Jan 10, 2023 17:43:45 GMT
OK, but first, and just for fun, I managed to pass the Steamer x-files through UUP, to export as Fbx into Blender, which worked a treat. The Textures and Animations survived, with the Armature (the bones...). I was surprised to find an animation 20,000 key-frames long, but I shrank it down, using Scale, to 100, just so that it could be seen moving. Here's the Blender rendering of that animation... Stea_Mode_02.rar (719.6 KB) A bit too complicated to use for tuition (I'll have to work it out myself first..!), but RTR x-files can be worked in Blender, so I presume that, with some 'fettling', the reverse will be true, too. I'll change my animation style to that using Armatures, so that it can be compatible with the RTR style, but I think we have to ignore Inverted Kinetics in that case, as I read that RTR doesn't like 'em. A shame, as it helps solve many issues. I'll prepare an animation Armature, then, and we'll carry on from there. Back soon; meanwhile, have fun with the Steamer Model files. Douglas
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Post by jnr on Jan 10, 2023 20:32:24 GMT
Hi Douglas The armature type of animation was the type I tried the last time I had a go with blender. Rule the Rails was made for windows XP I was surprised when it worked with windows 7 and I was amazed when it still worked in windows 10. So the game technology is a bit basic. I have been experimenting with RTR wheel animation for years at the moment the only way a can get a new animated loco is to get a animated loco remove all the body in fragmotion then build a new body in sketchup save it as a xfile then merge the new body with the animated wheel set and save as a xfile. It took me about 18 months to work out this process but now it’s second nature. This is why I am 100% committed to learn how to animate.
Kindest Regards Jnr
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train
Conductor
Posts: 114
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Post by train on Jan 10, 2023 23:27:39 GMT
OK, I've read the linked tutorial, which explains how to do it using Fragmotion. I'll have a look at that software; it seems to be something from the 17th century, though, compared to other stuff..! I see what Fragmotion is doing; I'm wondering if more modern software can come up with an equivalent result. RTR understands Directx for its objects and animation, apparently (again; Stone Age, really, as far as User-friendliness goes...), so I'll try to see exactly what RTR wants in its .x file for animations. MBS imports .x files too (although I do it with Gltf; far easier to manipulate, for me...), so I'll try to compare the RTR method with the MBS method, to see if there's any commonality. The animations for this kind of movement I do in Blender using key-frames and linked (parented...) objects, as it's simple and clear. Blender also does Armatures, for 'skeletal' structures (human, of course, but mechanics too, such as excavators...). The tools for this are excellent, too, but the concepts are a bit less intuitive when not associated with animals etc. It can all be done with armatures; they, too, would need to be interpreted in a fashion RTR understands, by way of .x files. Do any of you have an .x file of a working mechanism, preferably simple, so that I may see how it's defined..? I could then see how to get that result with other tools. Meanwhile, I'll have a look at this FragMotion stuff. Back later... Douglas Hello Douglas. What you're doing is a complete game changer in the RTR community and I really hope you succeed, and please write a detailed account of your procedures when you do. You have a point when it comes to Fragmotion, it is indeed a very outdated tool and very clunky to use (I can help you with it if you want to), XD, and I wish there was some Fragmotion support on blender or better .x exporting and importing addons, that would make RTR modelling infinitely easier. I can provide you with an animated .blend file of one of the steam engines included in the original game if that pleases you, extracted right from the game's files. Is that what you need?
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train
Conductor
Posts: 114
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Post by train on Jan 10, 2023 23:29:06 GMT
Back again just a few points on what we have covered so far 1 When I switch to the texture paint mode in blender my wheel is textured when I switch to any other mode the wheel has no texture is this normal, will the end result be textured 2 I can't seem to find the rotate and scale windows in blender it's probably right in front of my eyes, but I don't want to make a mistake at this point Best Regards Jnr 1 - It will have textures on the end result likely. 2 - I would recommend that you watch some blender tutorials, having some introduction and knowledge to the software is recommended. The rotation tools have different positions on 2.7 and 2.8 (I might make an edit to this post later to provide a comparison pick to where are the rotation and scale tools on 2.7 and 2.8)
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train
Conductor
Posts: 114
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Post by train on Jan 10, 2023 23:32:48 GMT
OK, but first, and just for fun, I managed to pass the Steamer x-files through UUP, to export as Fbx into Blender, which worked a treat. The Textures and Animations survived, with the Armature (the bones...). I was surprised to find an animation 20,000 key-frames long, but I shrank it down, using Scale, to 100, just so that it could be seen moving. Here's the Blender rendering of that animation... View AttachmentA bit too complicated to use for tuition (I'll have to work it out myself first..!), but RTR x-files can be worked in Blender, so I presume that, with some 'fettling', the reverse will be true, too. I'll change my animation style to that using Armatures, so that it can be compatible with the RTR style, but I think we have to ignore Inverted Kinetics in that case, as I read that RTR doesn't like 'em. A shame, as it helps solve many issues. I'll prepare an animation Armature, then, and we'll carry on from there. Back soon; meanwhile, have fun with the Steamer Model files. Douglas You're doing great! I would recommend to keep the animation 20,000 keyframes long, since that's how RTR's animations work for some reason as from what I have seen from the times I imported steam engine models into fragmotion. If you shrink it or change it's size you may have a few problems, but I never tested that before. I will make sure to take a look at the Steamer Model files you sent later.
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Post by dad3353 on Jan 10, 2023 23:37:29 GMT
OK, I've read the linked tutorial, which explains how to do it using Fragmotion. I'll have a look at that software; it seems to be something from the 17th century, though, compared to other stuff..! I see what Fragmotion is doing; I'm wondering if more modern software can come up with an equivalent result. RTR understands Directx for its objects and animation, apparently (again; Stone Age, really, as far as User-friendliness goes...), so I'll try to see exactly what RTR wants in its .x file for animations. MBS imports .x files too (although I do it with Gltf; far easier to manipulate, for me...), so I'll try to compare the RTR method with the MBS method, to see if there's any commonality. The animations for this kind of movement I do in Blender using key-frames and linked (parented...) objects, as it's simple and clear. Blender also does Armatures, for 'skeletal' structures (human, of course, but mechanics too, such as excavators...). The tools for this are excellent, too, but the concepts are a bit less intuitive when not associated with animals etc. It can all be done with armatures; they, too, would need to be interpreted in a fashion RTR understands, by way of .x files. Do any of you have an .x file of a working mechanism, preferably simple, so that I may see how it's defined..? I could then see how to get that result with other tools. Meanwhile, I'll have a look at this FragMotion stuff. Back later... Douglas Hello Douglas. What you're doing is a complete game changer in the RTR community and I really hope you succeed, and please write a detailed account of your procedures when you do. You have a point when it comes to Fragmotion, it is indeed a very outdated tool and very clunky to use (I can help you with it if you want to), XD, and I wish there was some Fragmotion support on blender or better .x exporting and importing addons, that would make RTR modelling infinitely easier. I can provide you with an animated .blend file of one of the steam engines included in the original game if that pleases you, extracted right from the game's files. Is that what you need? Have a look at the post to Jnr, just two up from yours, especially the 'rar' file, which contains a Blender version of a working x-file, and a short video showing the animation in there. If you've any other animated x-files with working linkages, I'd like to see them for playing around with and working out how to do others. The issue we will have, maybe quite soon, will be to get a working animation from Blender into RTR, through an x-file. I'll try to get something made to at least test the x-files that Blender can export. I'm not sure yet how this will play out, but, for the moment, I'm moderately optimistic that it can be done. Douglas
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train
Conductor
Posts: 114
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Post by train on Jan 10, 2023 23:40:20 GMT
Hello Douglas. What you're doing is a complete game changer in the RTR community and I really hope you succeed, and please write a detailed account of your procedures when you do. You have a point when it comes to Fragmotion, it is indeed a very outdated tool and very clunky to use (I can help you with it if you want to), XD, and I wish there was some Fragmotion support on blender or better .x exporting and importing addons, that would make RTR modelling infinitely easier. I can provide you with an animated .blend file of one of the steam engines included in the original game if that pleases you, extracted right from the game's files. Is that what you need? Have a look at the post to Jnr, just two up from yours, especially the 'rar' file, which contains a Blender version of a working x-file, and a short video showing the animation in there. If you've any other animated x-files with working linkages, I'd like to see them for playing around with and working out how to do others. The issue we will have, maybe quite soon, will be to get a working animation from Blender into RTR, through an x-file. I'll try to get something made to at least test the x-files that Blender can export. I'm not sure yet how this will play out, but, for the moment, I'm moderately optimistic that it can be done. Douglas Hi Douglas, before writing an elaborate reply to your post I would like to know real quick if you have any faster way of communicating, as imo one of the problems on using this forum is that it takes a day or two to have simple interactions with members. I wonder if you can use a discord account or an email so we can exchange information faster. My discord tag:Cheddar#1460
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